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[#130286]
Written by: artistharry [17/03/10, 11:31] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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Children of Gaza In December 2008, the Israeli Defence Force unleashed a campaign to destroy the ability of Hamas to launch rockets and mortars into Israel. Around 300 children were among the 1,300 Palestinians that were killed. After the ceasefire, BAFTA-winning filmmaker Jezza Neumann arrived in Gaza to follow the lives of three children over a year. Surrounded by the remnants of the demolished Gaza Strip and increasingly isolated by the blockade that prevents anyone from rebuilding their homes and their lives, Children of Gaza is a shocking, touching and uniquely intimate reflection on extraordinary courage in the face of great adversity. Technical Specs Video Codec: XviD ISO MPEG-4 Video Bitrate: 1925kbps Video Resolution: 704x400 Video Aspect Ratio: 1.760:1 Frames Per Second: 25 Audio Codec: 0x0055 MPEG-1 Layer 3 Audio Bitrate: 128kb/s CBR 48000 Hz Audio Streams: 2ch Audio Languages: English RunTime Per Part: 47:33.mins Number Of Parts: 1 Part Size: 701 MB Subtitles: None Source: DVB-rip Ripped by: artistharry |
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[#130287]
Written by: fromers [17/03/10, 11:44] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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they just hand those baftas out to anyone i guess. they launched 3000 rockets in a very short period of time against israel, the equivalent of 30,000 against uk civilians, or 150,000 against america. of course it had to be answered, he might as well have shot a documentary about those "british bastards" in germany after the allies bombed their cities, i'm sure you could find many german youth who hated and wanted to fight the allies. but to blame the allies for that suffering and attitude is missing the point entirely. like the nazis the palestinians have steeped their children in a culture of hate from birth, its no surprise what comes from that. the total lack of scruitiny at hamas or culpability allows them to continue destroying any chance for peace, the apologists who always point the finger at israel allow hamas to control the agenda. and that is to kill as many as they can, whether they will admit it or not, dead palestinian children are as good for their cause as dead jews. they have even been known to state that the civilians are just martyres anyways. so hiding behind them is no big deal. until hamas and friends have their murderous methods rebuked this will continue, and things like the blockade are frankly justified. |
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[#130291]
Written by: shakoor_h [17/03/10, 13:29] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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And this is just what we don't need. Just because 5% of Palestinians are Hamas, the rest of the 95% become targets? This is completely ridiculous, you don't have to be religious to see that this is wrong, there is no excuse to kill 300 children EVER (no matter what race, religion or creed). It's not the Palestinians that have steeped their children in a culture of hate, it's the Israeli government. How would you feel if your entire family was killed? Answer that question truthfully, and you'll see the mindset of Hamas, Israel's government has killed their families and destroyed their houses, and stolen their land. And people say they aren't doing exactly the same thing that the Nazi's did to them. It sickens me that people say that CHILDREN are fair targets, there's something wrong with you psychologically if you think that in the slightest. |
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[#130292]
Written by: fromers [17/03/10, 13:40] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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5%? I'm sorry, they were elected by the gazans. To pretend they have no responsibility for this is to deny reality. your elected representatives start firing rockets at israeli civilians you don't expect there to be consequences? this is the warped thinking where palestinians bear absolutely no responsibility or accountability. and somehow you expect the unaccountable irresponsible to be candidates for peace talks? How would you as a german feel if your family was killed in ww2? it doesn't give you higher moral standing just because you are a victim, without context it means nothing. The palestinians are taught from hateful school books, from hateful preachers, government propaganda and all forms of media. Google up memritv if you want a slice of what goes on the air there. The mindless idea that if children are killed that allows you to skip all other reasoning is senseless. I'm sure the brits and americans killed many german children in their raids in ww2, does that make them bad as the nazis? by your standard it does. The difference is the israelis never target children as policy. Collateral damage is inevitable in such situations esp when groups like hamas encourage it, or even use children during conflicts. Israel sends in jewish blood to minimize civilian death. a courtesy never extended to jews by hamas where their only consideration is to maximize civilian casualties. you don't get 14 dead and 336 wounded idf soldiers fighting against the defenseless. If the idf were as bad as hamas they'd simply rain death from the air and never spill a drop of jewish blood. So your comparisons to nazi's are just ridiculous. The only ones who can be fairly compared to the nazis are the palestinians, who have whole hearted adopted both the tactics, culture and hate of the nazis. but what do you expect, since the days of the grand mufti of jerusalem there have been ties. the grand mufti was the one that helped setup muslim SS brigades for hitler, and agreed to his portion of the final solution after all. |
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[#130297]
Written by: Bung [17/03/10, 14:22] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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@ fromers Excuse me, we voted for our governments throughout this century and look at the terrible things they've done "in our name": - Suez Crisis - Manufactured War, England and France persuaded Israel to attach Egypt so "we" could go in and stop the war from affecting the Canal we so enjoyed controlling until it was nationalised by a leader who was loved and whom the people of Egypt took up arms to fight for... - Falklands war under Thatcher... also suspected of being manufactured by us as a political tool - Iraq - Millions of people here were against the war, everyone else didn't understand it... we were lied to about there being a treat to us, which turned out to be false... also I think its odd that no one said, "so the middle east can attach in 45 minutes, so what?" or "Can't we attack them in under 45 minutes? Does that mean they can invade us?" etc... People don't always know what their governments are doing, which is why we need to be open and honest and stop all this bullshit that goes on behind the scenes... I truly believe that if a government can't tell it's educated civilised people it's intentions then it should change it's intentions... We are meant to be the government - in the sense that they are meant to represent us and do things on our behalf... If they keep secrets from us then how can they truly be representing us... and how can we be blamed for their actions... Same with Hammas, and their people aren't as educated, their society not as developed, how can you say Israel is justified attacking a people who are caught in the middle of this massive manipulation!? It's DISGUSTING! All of it... our invasions, their invasions, their drone attacks, hammas's rocket attacks - it's all disgusting... but we need to remember that Israel and the UK have more stability, more education, more understanding of the world... it's our responsibility to ensure we don't retaliate and that we try to reach an understanding! I'll leave you on this though... if a child runs into your leg at the supermarket with a trolley - are you going to ram them back!? |
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[#130299]
Written by: fromers [17/03/10, 14:54] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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your comparison is flawed, if a child took shots at your family with a rifle at the supermarket would you just let them continue until they got lucky? |
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[#130300]
Written by: shakoor_h [17/03/10, 15:07] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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You need to get your head examined mate, or you can stay in your basement wearing your tinfoil hat thinking up conspiracies. You've basically just said that Palestinians (THE ENTIRE NATION) are like Nazi's? Wow...just...wow, I didn't know stupidity like this existed. And we wonder why the Israeli government is so f***ed up, they've got people like this guy backing them, who think it is perfectly fine to kill innocent civilians. |
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[#130303]
Written by: fromers [17/03/10, 15:48] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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Turn about is fair play, palestinian apologists love bringing in the nazis, which is especially amusing when they don't realize the palestinians historical links to said organization. Whats wrong is that folks like you like to point fingers while being apologists and enablers for hamas, you claim to care about innocent deaths but your position results in exactly the opposite. you have no credibility on civilian death when you tacitly support groups where their goal is to maximize such deaths. you enable and legitimize their tactics and fundamental immorality by casting them as ever innocent unaccountable blameless victims with no responsibility. and you wonder why there is no peace. you really think the unaccountable zero responsibility party you are backing is a legitimate partner for peace. give me a break. |
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[#130310]
Written by: Hamdan [17/03/10, 16:35] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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For all people in this forum you are mixing up between the killer and the victim, you should ask yourself who got the most advanced weapons in the middle east and also in world top 5 list?. Ask yourself who got army and f-19 fighters as well as marines? Ask yourself who is inviting who to his land, the land of dreams as they refer to???. Hams rockets can only kill a bug nothing more, don’t be fooled by the numbers of rocket lunched by day, however Israel’s ones can send a whole city to hell. I am not saying that you are all blind from the truth but sometimes people get confused on who is killing who. |
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[#130312]
Written by: dizi [17/03/10, 17:07] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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Hello everyone, as an Israeli and as a reserve soldier I'd like to say my 2 cents here. First off, before operation "Cast Lead" we were living with rocket attacks to the south of our country on a daily basis for 8 years. It is true that Hammas was elected and therefore are to be held accountable for their actions as countries are. It was just 2 years prior when Israel destroyed a whole quarter in Beirut for Hizballah's rocket attacks, so there was no surprise as to what type of response would have come. I doubt it is a known fact to most of you of just how much Israel had gone out its way to save palestinian lives during the attacks. First, a day before an air raid flyers in arabic had been air dropped over the target area to warn civilians to leave. Second, on many occasions the phone of the house of which was to be attacked was dialed and warned. Moreover attacks were called off at the last minute to prevent large casualties. It is an issue of much criticism in Israel how careful the army is in taking its steps, and some believe it weakens it and it's deterrence. Military legal consultants were involved in each step of the war, which sounds pretty absurd. We (Israel) are not saints, there are mistakes being made and that is natural. The conflict is extremely complicated and an attempt to simplify it to one historic fact or another or to some conception of good vs. bad is underestimating the entire matter. My aim is not to spread some sort of propaganda but to show that there is much more to it than you get over the news. I must add that I cannot think of another country in the world that is held to the degree of scrutiny we are, and as such we are tested daily by terrorists, and from time to time they do manage to get us to show an ugly side. I doubt allied forces in Iraq or Afghanistan are as careful as we are. The blockade is a matter of survival. It doesn't mean that food and supplies don't reach in, it means they get checked, it means that weapons can't get in. If you really want to understand something, come and see for yourself. Peace. |
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[#130313]
Written by: Hamdan [17/03/10, 17:26] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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"First, a day before an air raid flyers in arabic had been air dropped over the target area to warn civilians to leave". loool, that was realy funny. where can they leave to ( as far as the world knows whole gaza was under havey air Strike boming). you only lie to your self and your people |
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[#130316]
Written by: dizi [17/03/10, 17:56] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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Look man, my whole point is that there is no black and white. The army went out of its way. You can't ignore what was going on. This is not a case of some brutal army randomly entering a city just for the sake of war. There was a mission, it was to stop rockets being fired. They could have stopped it right away, but they didn't. In fact, rockets were still being fired right until the last day. Think about it. There is no point blindly supporting one side. Israel makes plenty of decision I don't agree with. Thats why I go out and vote and speak. Would it kill you to say that palestinians were wrong to support Hammas, to agree to have them keep firing rockets while their cities were being bombed? |
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[#130318]
Written by: fromers [17/03/10, 18:28] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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completely irrelevant, the fact that israel has jet planes has no weight in this discussion. You'd have a point if israel were really as indiscriminate and murderous as hamas, but no honest person could actually pretend that is true. the idf holds back and uses minimal force possible considering the circumstances and risks their lives on the ground when they can in order to save lives. This is completely the opposite of the palestinian/hamas mentality of kill as many as you can. you choose to ignore the countless rockets fired at civilians so easily because they clearly and uncomfortably demonstrate the the murderous intent and total lack of regard for civilian life of hamas and co. that israelis can save themselves in bomb shelters is of no consequence when it comes to moral judgment of hamas actions, they intended mass murder, that you prevent a murderer from slaughtering the innocent doesn't make his act any less abhorrent. his intent is what matters, regardless of his competence, it sets the grounds for moral judgment, esp when one claims to care about civilian casaulties. you are blind to which side has the most murderous intent. it is this intent that justifies the blockade and the rest of the suffering, that you enable and are apologist for it only furthers suffering of any real innocents. and don' t get into the ridiculous moral calculus of death count. if the idea is that the higher civilian casualty count bestows higher moral ground, then the germans in ww2 were morally superior to the western allies since far more of their civilians were killed. and not by a small margin. it is not a moral negative that the british saved many of their civilians by hiding them in undergrounds during the blitz. There is no obligation to balance casualties. its a simplistic and faulty way to judge such situations. and its been used endlessly in this battle. |
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[#130320]
Written by: sxycind [17/03/10, 18:48] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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You must be kidding!!! Have you read yourself before saving this hidious message??? My god you speak of the Israeli army as if they where following orders from Mother Teresa!!!??? Come on!! Open your eyes people, this is not a who attacked who situation. Beneath all of this political crap is a very simple sitation: The muslim and the jewish are at war for a small strip of land called the Gaza. this is a holly war again!!!! Same shit, same reason everytime. It is abslolutly outrageous to kill a human being for any matter. There is no excuse for that behavior. NONE PERIOD!!!! For my point of view, both sides are disgusting and should be brought to justice. there is no answer that could justify such a behavior from either sides. |
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[#130324]
Written by: Feliner [17/03/10, 19:53] Action: [ Reply ] [ Quote ] |
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I think that what dizi stated is probably as close to "the truth" as you will get. Though you will never really know unless you were a Palestinian or an Israeli. The situation is far more complex than who threw the first punch, who uses which weapons, good vs evil, or some ridiculous blanket statement like "holy war". I knew a couple of Israeli soldiers who've told us many stories about Palestinian women slowly walking up towards restricted Israeli check points with their baby in the stroller simply to provoke the Israeli soldiers. I've also spoken to a number of Palestinians who have run away from their homes because of all the heavy handed tactics of Israel. There is wrong on both sides. However, some moron on here, I cant remember his name and cant be bothered looking it up, accused Israeli soldiers of killing Palestinian children and that under no circumstances is killing children acceptable. Well duh! But what about palestinian suicide bombers taking out buses which are likely to have school children as passengers? Or what about suicide bombers targeting night clubs in tel aviv where teenagers are known to spend their weekends? Does this justify Israeli soldiers killing Palestinian children? No! Of course not! But the difference here is that Palestinian children are not being targeted! Israeli children are! |
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